Episode 19: Spiders, Spuffy and impossible birds

The Salon is open!

It’s almost September and the Salon doors are flung wide open (even if this means that autumn spiders come stomping inside)!

Have a listen to the wonderfully meandering conversation here – and check out the shownotes below for a taste of what you’re in for!

We begin in the natural queendom. Spiders drift daintily on gossamer threads through Louise’s forest, while in Neil’s house, wolf spiders capable of carrying off goats lurk behind the sofa. Turnstones might be Louise’s favourite bird, but she’s never seen them turn a stone. Are they lying?

While the Turnstones aren’t turning stones, they are hiding behind rocks, which makes them impossible to count apparently. This does however give Louise’s mind time to wander, and we swoop into a conversation about neurodivergence (particularly in the workplace).

Birds seem to be a temporary theme. Louise spoils Neil with a reference to The Canary Code (which isn’t about birds at all but rather intersectionality in the workplace). Following the flight path, Neil’s reminded of an inspiring piece posted to Behavioral Scientist about the lived experience of poverty and how including lived experience in intervention design makes everything better.

Louise’s recos come swiftly and solidly: Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez is followed by a shout out for a recent ep of Four Thought, exploring the question of ‘Who Tells The Story?’. While Neil’s cognitively wiggling from those like a worm in a beak, BOOM! In comes Spuffy-dom and a delve into the fan fic universe of Buffy The Vampire Slayer via this article about an incredibly problematic episode (and what the fan are doing about it). We may brush against Freud and Jung but really… Wooden stakes speak for themselves.

Buffy kicked down some representational doors in her time, paving the way eventually for shows like Heartstopper (available on Netflix and based on a series of books by Alice Oseman). Neil wishes shows like this were available when he was young. But then there were only 4 channels in the UK. And ‘gay’ wasn’t a thing TV really liked to talk about unless it was terrifying, over-dramatic or Julian Clary (who could be all three in hindsight).

Flicking through the channels of chat, we alight briefly on the power of animation to tell stories and reflect things that standard shows can’t. Neil clangs down a reference to BoJack Horseman, and then (of course), The Simpsons ,which gets away with more than you’d expect it to.

It’s another wonderful conversation – and we invite you into the Salon with us! Follow this link to our official home on Anchor – or search ‘Hello You Podcast’ wherever you get your pods!

Episode 18: [To Pigeon] Are you in the Holly tree? Random animals abound …

Hello you! If you’re cool to slide into the chat via the picturesque venue of Lewes-twinned-with-Mordor (it will make sense during the first 5 minutes of listening) – WELCOME!

Come on in – the Salon is open and we’d love you to join us. Follow this link to listen in The shownotes are below to give you a bit of the shape of the episode …

We start off innocently enough talking about allotment planting and Canadian wonder beans, which produce the instantly recognisable red kidney beans.

Peaceful gardening exploits somehow lead us to Game of Thrones & the eye of Sauron. It all has something to do with Louise’s new attic office and the view of the Lewes telephone mast. We even found a website that gives you a map of the mast’s range and signal strength.

This brings us to the second ever HYP playlist – our random animal playlist! Listeners, we want your random animal tunes. Neil has started us off with last week’s Eurovision hit “Give that Wolf a Banana” and new this week “What does the fox say?” Could there even be a dialogue between animal songs with “Hungry like the wolf” naturally leading us to wolves and bananas?

Neil has been listening to some podcasts about music and listening habits. In particular he pulls the relationship between lo-fi/chill and developers in this episode of the Philosopher’s Zone which is part of a wider discussion about who and which class of people music is marketed at.

Also, other links to podcasts touching on music and other social issues:

This launches us on a long, beautiful arc about music, going to gigs, mental health, dancing and the experience of being taken out of the everyday. Immersion comes to mind for Louise which also reminds her of this Movember story about wild swimming.

After quite a lot of hedging, Louise shares her freshest thinking about her purpose and where she’s taking her business:

heart-led communication for everyone, everywhere

What does this evoke for you? Others that she’s drawn inspiration from include Helena Clayton’s radical work on love at work. Who else can Louise take inspiration from and is there anyone among our listeners who likes the direction of it? Let us know!

And this leads Neil into an enquiry around ‘what do we mean when we say we need to think differently?’ It’s cropping up in a lot of business (and other) blogging, but what IS it? He was inspired by this from Gillian Tett: An invitation to reexamine your familiar world (TedX Talks Daily).

Neil also remembers a film he loves and urges Louise (and anyone else!) to watch it: Fritz Lang’s Metropolis.

AND FINALLY: To reiterate, your listener mission from this podcast is to

Share your random animal songs by adding them to the latest HYP playlist!
HYP18 Random Animals Playlist

Some things we love

Episode 17: Disrupting wolves with bananas

Well hello! Pull up a comfy chair for Episode 17 of Hello You Podcast …

This month we talk a lot about disruption in one form or another. Disrupting the dominant narrative, disrupting how we experience the world by (re)naming, disrupting our own ideas of what inclusion means and what it implies. And, of course, something about wolves and bananas … (hint, it’s Eurovision related).

Come on in – the Salon is open and we’d love you to join us. Follow this link to listen inshownotes are below to give you a flavour of what you’ll be dipping into …

Louise can’t help but jump in and talk about Visit Iceland’s outhorse your email campaign, which Neil had shared with her the week before. From there it’s a seamless (if giggly) skip to Eurovision. Louise confesses she always misses it – find out next month if Neil will ever forgive her.

Clearly Ukraine’s winning entry deserves a mention, however it’s Norway’s Give that Wolf a Banana by SubWoolfer that we most want to share. “Do watch it and I defy you not to be singing it a week later at some inappropriate moment”

Louise admits to still struggling with Derrida – she is currently still working her way through Peter Salmon’s biography An Event, Perhaps and she’s finally getting somewhere with it … she thinks: does it matter if an apple tree is called an apple tree or not? We also reference a short essay by Nietzsche on truth & lies in a non moral sense (try starting line 98 for the chunk we talk about).

This sparks a thought from Neil about linguistic colonialism, which was covered excellently in a recent episode of What the Duck podcast. And that spirals Louise into recommending David Abrams’ The Spell of the Sensuous.

– the Deep Dive podcast.

“Inclusion is opening the door to a space that already exists.” Neil ponders one of his blind-spots, which prompts Louise to do the same, prompted by listening to the always fabulous The Deep Dive podcast – do listen to The Black Experience in Design, it’s thoughtful and thought provoking as ever. We talk through our recognition of some of the problems with the concept of inclusion, which we find illuminates the threads around honouring messiness and the harm of reducing “pluriversality” to a unified narrative. Because we all know whose voices and experience get cut or glossed over … always those with less power!

And finally, we jump into an article on the concept of mental immunity. Where better than to go from messiness & pluriversality than to fake news and misinformation? We both find the article flawed in some important ways, and Louise poses a question for listeners:

“What might a better analogy be than immunity when thinking about how we process fake news & misinformation?”

“Or, if you think the analogy of mental immunity works fine, let us know why – what have we missed?”

Some things we love

Episode 16: The unbearable heaviness of being perfect

Welcome to Episode 16 of Hello You Podcast!

Come in, sit down and get comfy … all in the name of exploring discomfort. It turns out that reflecting on things that make us uncomfortable is the emergent theme for this month’s episode and, as ever, Neil & Louise dive in.

Come on in – the Salon is open and we’d love you to join us. Follow this link to listen inshownotes are below to give you a flavour of what you’ll be dipping into …

Unexpectedly (and that’s for us, not just the listeners) we start with a discussion about wild garlic, because it’s that time of year and when Neil mentions sunshine, Louise remembered she’s recently been out picking ransoms. Here’s the wild garlic pesto recipe she’s tried; also here’s a vegan recipe.

We shimmy our way into a conversation about pitching and the discomfort of looking for external validation: is the pitch (or even the pitcher) only any good if they win the work? From there we forage our way into a discussion about what ‘good enough’ means and why we struggle with it. That’s both we, as in Neil & Louise and the ‘bigger we’ of UK society.

Collaboration crops up (a bit of a perennial topic on this podcast!) and what part fear plays in stopping us from doing the vulnerable sharing that’s essential for good collaboration. We also dip into flow states, find an article on getting into flow as a team here.

Of course, vulnerability is often a little uncomfortable which brings us to a recent experience of Louise’s, where she felt intimidated and uncomfortable with the thought of reading Chen Chen’s poetry, written in English and Mandarin. Here’s the Twitter thread that sent tendrils out in Louise’s direction and please do consider how powerful it is for the author to share THEIR linguistic world. A huge thank you to Tulika for sharing this with Louise 🙂 This reply to the original tweet also features in the podcast discussion. More about Chen Chen can be found on their website.

Language crops up (as it so often does) – Louise & Neil pop into the idea of learning a new language and what this might reveal about the world around us. Here’s a question, lovely listeners: if you could start learning any language today, what would it be and why? Let us know in the comments below!

Our final and fertile discussion point is Neil’s take on ‘They’ by radical queer writer Kay Dick. Louise admits to feeling uncomfortable and wanting to run away, but also wanting to read it. Neil talks about They evoking things that are uncomfortably like things he’s experienced.

Some things we love

They, written by Kay Dick and originally published in 1977 is enjoying a revival of interest and has us both spellbound with it’s dystopian discomfort style social commentary on art, artists and groupthink.

Episode 15: From big views to navigating news

Welcome to Episode 15 Hello You Podcast!

This is our first international episode – Louise is discovering new, big views, in Portugal where the weather isn’t behaving as expected. The coffee is cheap, and it transpires that Neil may be a coffee snob. Which he is.

Pull up a chair – the Salon is open. Follow this link to listen in – or skim the shownotes below first to see exactly what you’ll be getting yourself in for!

We indulge our love of big spaces, and dip into recent research out of China which demonstrates a correlation between childhood exposure to green space and adult mental health. While a 50 year longitudinal study would be interesting, we also ponder on the ethical approval of such a study – “No green space for you, control group!”… (It also reminds us of a season 1 episode when we check out the idea of biophilia)

We jump on a segue (say it) to get to a rather interesting study on the social effects of reality TV and pervasive rags-to-riches stories on actual reality and culture.

Which leads us onto mutual love for The Philosopher’s Zone podcast and a series on time before Louise recommends 4,000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman. We also take a sojourn into a LinkedIn conversation about efficiency. Because we can.

We talk about the war in Ukraine. We absolutely appreciate that some listeners may not wish to engage in this part of the conversation. We love you, and we respect that.

The discussion about the war being waged against Ukraine and its people starts at 22minutes. The invasion forms the backbone for the rest of our discussion, although we don’t always refer to it directly.

We have included the main threads below, with appropriate links. We hope that these are useful and helpful, even if you decide not to listen to this second half of the episode.

Please remember to look after yourselves. If you are struggling with the enormity of everything that is going on right now, you are part of a global community wondering how to process just what the heck is happening in so many spheres.

Please reach out to talk to someone – a friend, relative or counselling organisation. You are not alone and you are loved.

In this segment, we cover a lot of ground including some ridiculous comments from the Prime Minister of England.

We speak about the importance of identifying mis- and dis information, which leads us into an exploration of the news agenda – who owns the platform? What’s their agenda? Where is the money behind it all? Also, we talk about how we filter our own media consumption and ponder the differences between how media reaches us / the effect that those channels have.

Louise recommends some reading from Carole Cadwalladr on Twitter (for example this thread and this one).

Something else that troubles us is the decision by Meta to allow hate speech on the platform, in a temporary change to its policies.

This leads us to think more deeply about social media, its power to change the control over narratives, for good or ill. One of those good things is a Tumblr blog Louise used to run – View from the Coffee Table.

Within our explorations, Louise revives fond memories of A View From The Coffee Table, in which critters get up to all sorts of cheeky things. There are critters, a coffee table, wine glasses and disco balls. Oh, and a train journey. It’s on Tumblr so it must be true.

Finally in this podcast (55:30), we return to Ukraine to speak about moments of beauty courtesy of a Twitter feed – WarCoffee.

Things we find interesting

New Citizenship – Louise discovered them at Meaning Conference. When we think of ourselves in different modes (consumer, subject, citizen), our behaviour changes accordingly.

The tipping point for ideas is when 10% of a population have an unshakeable belief in it

Some things we love

We love the Catalyst Club, a true Brighton institution.

We love Peeps Magazine, an inspiring publisher based in Canada who are doing some truly brilliant world building content.

Episode 14: In which we discover Nyctous

Welcome to Episode 14 of the joyously unfurling experiment that is Hello You Podcast!

We record on a delightfully palindromic date; exploring the ebbs, flows, echoes and traces of the English language; diving into the most wonderful poem by Katha Pollitt; and talking about one of our most oft-explored topics: diversity, inclusion and the richness other people’s experiences brings to our own existence.

Pull up a chair – the Salon is open. Follow this link to listen in!

Language ebbs and flows:
– Things at risk of being lost from the English language
– Putting words into the English language
– Do you know where “Gone for a lob in a bucket” comes from? (If you’ve got any weird and wonderful family words or sayings, let us know!)
– We talk about language suppression – this link wasn’t to hand at the time but it illustrates our conversation
– We mention Tolkien and in true fact-checking style we can confirm he did create his own language. In fact he created several, read an interesting essay on Tolkien’s languages and their relationship with his storytelling here.

– Katha Pollitt’s amazing poem – Silent Letter. (What does this bring up for you?)
An interesting study that uses poetry to uncover experiences of belonging in Higher Education
– Louise shares some exciting ideas for exploring poetry with others (which reminds us about a previous episode where we talked about mental simulations quite a lot)

Equality, Equity and Inclusion
– Louise recommends this amazing Ted video from Stella Young: “I’m not your inspiration, thank you very much
– We talk about checking our privilege and how single terms might describe a clinical condition but not the variety of experiences which make every human unique
– We also talk about how language changes and moves on when talking about disabilities – for example how the charity Scope was previously known as something else (and a word that we no longer use)

– Did you know that Back To The Future was originally meant to have a time travelling fridge?
– AI invented its own language. And then got shut down.

February 2022: That’s not a strategy … that’s barely … even … a … TACTIC!

HELLO, YOU! Ready for an explosive welcome? Neil delivers …

Starting with a poem that plays with surreal, yet specific, imagery we launch into the show. Taking time for some (justified) outrage on the habit of trying to inject delight in marketing where it just doesn’t belong and why, why, why are marketing strategy & tactics so easily confused?

We also talk about pronouns and Neil shares his experience and findings about how opening up the dialogue around pronouns can create positive experiences.

Welcome – the Salon is open and there’s a chair waiting for you … Follow this link to listen in!

TopicTime code (approx)Link
Louise shares and reads a poem she’s fallen in love with ‘I want to write about an Orange’2:55

Read it, published by The Madrigal, here

PS do peruse The Madrigal, their themes are awesome!
Listener shout-out – thank you for following us on LI! PLEASE share what inspires you & what you’re reading / listening to / otherwise enjoying on our LinkedIn page 10:00Hello You Podcast on LinkedIn – do say hi and comment on our page / posts … whatever!
We dip our toes into the phenomenon of social media outrage, inspired by a superbly written and referenced article … 15:15Social media and moral outrage
With thanks to Lauren Pope for sharing this

– has the pandemic ruined delight in marketing? (Spoiler, we think it’s been broken a while)

it makes Louise wonder if she’s just a bitter, cynical marketer (answers on a postcard …)


Delight is dead …

Lauren Pope’s fab newsletter Ten Things

We also mention Curio a AWESOME conference from Lauren Pope & Louise Whitfield

And this reminds Neil of a thing he wrote on surprise & delight a while ago
Debate around adding pronouns to your LI profile name. Neil gets his research geek on … 33:20 The poll on LinkedIn that Neil mentions
A marvel of journalistic writing found in a local newspaper, found by Neil – it contains magic!Tweet from Marcy Massura

Christmas 2021: Eavesdropping into the lacunae

Hello, You!

Louise is in deeley boppers, Shiro Cat is thoroughly spoilt and it’s episode 12 of Hello You Podcast! It’s both Christmas themed and rich in links this month.

We give a shout out to lovely listener Rachel Rumble, explore bravery in charity communications and muse over Joseph Conrad’s ability to include the reader deeply in his writing. We also narrowly avoid panic-buying cinnamon in a bid to increase our creativity, even though cinnamon is a quintessential Christmas spice.

Welcome – the Salon is open and there’s a chair waiting for you … Follow this link to listen in!

TopicTime code (approx)Link
Shiro Cat has many, many beds 00:00

Here she is on Twitter. Isn’t she cute?
We talk about the wearing nature of this end of the year, and promise to share some good mental health support links in the shownotes
NOTE – these are all UK based
NHS Mental Health Charity Directory
NHS Urgent mental health support
Where do we get inspiration from? Louise shares an amazing piece of analysis of Joseph Conrad’s work.

Also, if anyone can explain Rothko, Neil would love to know!


The migratory fictions of Joseph Conrad

Will McInnes’ LinkedIn post looking for inspirational sources
A poetry recollection: Identity by Elizabeth Jennings16:37Read the text of the poem here
Louise’s love for the RNLI and it’s bold response to criticism from tabloids and Nigel Farrage.

As an aside, Wikipedia tells us that “The RNLI’s lifeboat crews and lifeguards have saved more than 140,000 lives since 1824”
22:08Tweet from @travellingcoral

RNLI on going bold with their comms

We mentioned the fabulous Julie Rainey, here she is on LinkedIn
Also a shout out for Hampshire and Isle of Wight air ambulance for being brave enough to talk back27:27Tweet: “Can you explain why you decided to fly at 1750ft from St Mary’s to Southampton General hospital at 4am over residental properties… “
Ratty and Mole talk marketing strategy (or something …)31:40Tweet from @rattyandmolebot
We talk about an article on the role of cinnamon in creativity and Neil gets excited about biohacking35:40Science says smelling cinnamon can make you much more creative and innovative (but not for the reason you might think)
– article from Inc.
Musings on the distinction between perfection and excellence38:38Striving for perfection, rather than excellence, can kill creativity
– article from the BPS
Perfection is for the gods … roman mosaics and making mistakes on purpose.

Which reminds Neil of watching a film based on a book by the Marquis de Sade
46:35Details of how to visit the places Neil mentions if you feel so inclined:
Fishbourne Roman Palace
Bignor Roman Villa

Salo – entry on the film in Wikipedia
Neil & Louise ruminate on TV advertising – is a nation’s advertising a view into it’s collective blind spots? Or is it simply that we’re outside the target demographic?
51:40The perfect antidote to TV advertising: Copyranter 2.0 on substack

Neil’s LinkedIn post about the Guinness advert
A final festive themed story of a package finding it’s intended recipients in Canada with the help of Twitter1:01:01Twitter I need your help!
It’s the Holidays & a package meant for “Yasmin & Perry” has been misaddressed & delivered to me …

December 2021: Recognising the human input

Hello, You!

The unfurling HYP experiment continues, welcoming proper double digits (11. Racy in Bingo language, apparently) with a dive into design, a recollection of the numb tongues of episode 8 and rather a lot of love shared for our favourite designer…

As always, we’re super grateful to our lovely LinkedIn gang for curating fascinating topics and sharing thoughts, ideas or opinions – have a listen to the episode and then please follow the links in the shownotes.

And, towards the end, we throw the floor open to you, fabulous listeners – the future of marketing may depend on you!

Welcome – the Salon is open and there’s a chair waiting for you … Follow this link to listen in!

TopicTime code (approx)Link
Starting with a lift… 00:00

We recap on the awesome ‘These Are The Hands’ project Louise was involved in – and discover a heap of new awesomeness that’s about to happen with it!1:00These Are The Hands on Poetry Pharmacy

Link to OFFICIAL LAUNCH EVENT! (9 Dec 2021. Caps intentional!)

Link to the live 2020 event, run by Louise!

Louis Theroux’s Grounded Podcast

Miriam & Alan: Lost in Scotland (Channel 4)

The Bigger Picture Collaboration

Did you know that Guinness is vegan? Louise didn’t (but is delighted to discover that it’s indeed true).
Other drinks are available. And any Guinness / marmite health claims are entirely unsubstantiated (yet delicious).

We also reminisce – fondly? maybe – about our 70s clove based cocktail experience.


Proof that Guinness is vegan

August ’21 episode
Grounded / Groundedness Marketing – yes it’s a Thing. We dive into what sort of a Thing it is, and share the love for our LinkedIn friends who contributed to a most marvellous discussion.

We also explore abstract loss, the price/value of connectedness and what happens when you name a Thing (especially in Marketing)
The fabulous LinkedIn discussion – why not join in and share your thoughts?

Pepperidge Farm Remembers advert

Harnessing Nostalgia
by Nedra Kline Weinreich

Baz Luhrmann – Everybody’s Free To Wear Sunscreen

Rachel Clark Art
We do love a good bit of design – so we delve into the world of Local Government Logos.

We chat about ‘radical simplicity’, share a lot of love for Scott Winterberg over at Spitfire Design and Rolls Royce hubcaps.
Tim Ridgway’s superb curation on LinkedIn that kicked this discussion off

Spitfire Creative

Adur & Worthing Councils’ gorgeous brand guidelines

Rolls Royce hub caps – and how they stay upright.

BBC Cuffs – Filmed at Adur Civic Centre

An explanation of ‘anchor institutions’.

Sussex University’s branding

McDonald’s playing with their logo

Bravery in branding & design is all very well and good, but it is effective?49:00‘Creative effectiveness is collapsing’
It seems harder than ever to find good, new and interesting blogs about marketing.

Louise poses a radical suggestion and we ask:

“Listeners – who is out there on the edge of marketing thinking?”
Answers on a postcard – or in the comments – please! The future of marketing may depend on you!

Orlando Wood on LinkedIn


November 2021: The curious case of the inaccessible colloquia

Hello, You!

It’s our 10th episode! Thank you for sharing this journey with us.

Neil & Louise reflect on what they’ve learned over the last 9 episodes about being in flow while we chat, including the episode with the unintended bread theme.

We talk about staying in the moment and segue into a newly published book on consciousness that Louise is desperate to read.

From there, it’s a small hop to talking about anti-social grannies dancing in public spaces in China. Despite the fact that not everyone’s enjoying it, it’s a joyful view on community bonding in another culture.

Welcome in, the Salon is open and there’s a chair waiting for you …

TopicTime code (approx)Link
Louise & Neil agree they’ve both learned about staying in flow with the podcast chat

Pure first-hand observation! You heard it here first 😉
How do you hold the moment when performing or writing?
5:35No link, but we LOVE the idea of performing, moment by moment “as if no other moment matters”
Louise’s book wish-list
‘Being you’ by Anil Seth

(via a tangent about reading a biography of Jacques Derrida – Louise thinks this may be the most accessible biography of the notoriously incomprehensible philosopher)


Anil Seth’s website for Being You

A review of An Event, Perhaps by Peter Salmon
Neil & Louise marvel at this story about anti-social dancing grannies in China13:50Guardian article

How language works to exclude some – the case of the colloquia21:05Neil & Louise’s twitter conversation on this
While we’re talking about codes in language, Neil mentions Polari31:20Thinking Allowed: Hidden gay lives
“Oh we don’t need to do that, our members are degree educated!” – we talk about how much it matters to be clear in public messaging for ANY audience33:32Neil’s top tip – use the
Hemingway App
Book recommendation from Neil: The Book of Strange New Things by Michel FaberReview in the Guardian